A Second Reply

I just received this reply to “the Trinity Part 2 – Jesus” and thought it might make for great discussion. This is the second reply I received to that article. Within the next few days or so we will be moving on in the discussion to “The Holy Spirit”.

Comment:

Lord does not mean God. Jesus is made lord by God. It is not true that the word “lord” (kurios) “in the Bible that is reserved for God.”

In the Bible, there is nothing in the scriptures that say that for us to be saved, we need to believe that Jesus is the God of Jesus, that is, that we are to believe that Jesus is the One who made Jesus both Christ (the Anointed One) and Lord (Kurios). — Acts 2:36.

I will take this moment to concede that I was incorrect in making that statement. Upon further review I have discovered that the Greek word Ronald has brought up, transliterated “Kurios” can refer to more than simply God himself.

In fact, this particular Greek word is used several times throughout the New Testament, many times with a different meaning. (The context defining the meaning of the word, as often happens with many English words.) Each definition however (as found in both Strong’s Greek Lexicon, and the one by F.Wilbur Gingrich I have on my desk) denote significant authority. In fact, the root word of Kurios means “Supreme Authority” which is why every definition ranges from things including “Supreme authority”, “Lord”, “Master”, “God”, or “In reference to Jesus with an emphasis on His authority.”

It is clear that through the use of the word “Kurios” God was trying to convey that Jesus was now being elevated to a position of supreme authority. (Fully restored to the place he was before he descended) Even if you don’t believe they directly point to his Godhood, you have to acknowledge that, upon looking closer at the actual Greek word, there is more there than simply “Jesus was made Lord (Powerful)”

However in response to your statement about the Bible not ever stating that it is necessary for us to believe he is God I believe I have already fully supported that. In fact, I have filled two blogs having done so. If you have yet to read them they are full of scripture that fully substantiates Jesus Godhood over and over again.

What scripture does say in response to false teachers appears in 2 Corinthians 11

³But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. ⁴For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough….. ¹³For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. ¹⁴And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. ¹⁵It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Yahweh Yahweh has anointed me. (Isaiah 61:1) This does not read “I am Yahweh and anointed myself.”

I’m not sure what your point here is.

Yes, Jesus’ only true Supreme Being (John 17:3) has given to the Jesus the plenitude of mightiness in his spiritual body. (Colossians 2:9) Praise the God and Father of Jesus!!

Jesus is indeed the image of the only true Supreme Being, the first of God’s living creation to be given life by the only true Supreme Being, and then all things were indeed created by means of the firstborn creature.

Can you show me where in scripture it show’s me that Jesus was created? Because we’ve already demonstrated that Jesus existed before all things began, so we aren’t talking about his human body. So… where does the bible say that Jesus was created? (for the readers at home – it doesn’t, however Jesus does declare himself to be eternal/God using God’s name “I AM” in John 8:58)

The Greek word pas always looks to context and common evidence for what is included or excluded in the the “all” that is being spoken of.

Most Greek words (as is the same in English) are dependent upon grammar.  If your beef is with the translators of this particular passage due to their contextual misinterpretation, you have been misinformed. As a student of Greek myself I have reviewed that passage and there is nothing there, contextually or otherwise to suggest that passage should be interpreted any differently than the obvious “all” in terms of “all – things” or “everything”.

There is nothing in any of the scriptures presented that say one word about more than one person in the only true Supreme Being. Nor is there anything at all that establishes that Jesus is the Supreme Being. The ideas do indeed have to assumed beyond what has been written, and the assumptions have to be added to and read into the added-on assumptions.

At this point I haven’t gotten to “The Trinity as a Whole”. Right now I am just dealing with scriptures that are a part of one section of the trinity at a time, so I wouldn’t expect to see anything that dealt with much more than one person, excepting that in each scripture Jesus shares the exact characteristics of God. Which proves that either the Bible is contradictory, that God is not God alone, (which also makes the bible contradictory) or that the trinity exists. (or, at least two parts of it so far – as we have yet to talk about the Holy Spirit)

The trinity sets up a man-formed god, an idol, which diminishes the role of Jesus as the Son of the Most High, the son of the only true Supreme Being, in effect, nullifying the ransom  sacrifice of Jesus as shown in the scriptures.

What nullifies the ransom is if Jesus was in-fact not God. This would leave him sinful and unable to atone for the sins of man as we need a pure sacrifice.

You keep looking for these verses that specifically point out that Jesus is God. I believe I have already pointed out the most obvious one, but if I haven’t I will do so now. It is in John Chapter 1. In this passage John refers to Jesus as “The Word” (as it becomes clearer later on in the passage) I have only included the relevant passages. Nothing should be taken out of context, but if you wish you can read the chapter from your own Bible.

John 1

¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ²He was with God in the beginning.  ³Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ⁴In him was life, and that life was the light of men. ⁵The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

(We have already established with other scriptures that the Bible is talking about Jesus using those words almost verbatim only here it says “He WAS God”)

¹⁰He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. ¹¹He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. ¹²Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

(We recognize this from passages all throughout the NT which tell us that if you receive/believe in Jesus you become children of God)

¹⁴The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,^[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Here John gives Jesus the title of “The One and Only” who came from the Father – Note “Grace and Truth”

¹⁷For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ¹⁸No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,^[e][f]who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

Here John kicks it up a notch to refer to “The One and Only” – Jesus as “God The one and Only” Who is at the father’s side. Note how it’s a whole separate person. God the One and Only – Who is at the father’s side. Which means that either the Trinity exists, the Bible is wrong, or there are two Gods in heaven. You decide.

…Just to go one step further a little later on in the book in John 6:46 it says:

“⁴⁶No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. (Which of course we just learned was Jesus)

And John 14:9-14 …Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father….¹⁰Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. ¹¹Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

As I have often said, there are certainly many many more verses I can offer, but by the time I finish this series I may feel as though I have reproduced half the New Testament. I hope this has been helpful to you and many of the other readers who have been following this series.

I promise that I will be posting “The Holy Spirit” soon. And we will all have a chance to discuss His connection to The Trinity